NBC, CBS, Fox cropped Rumsfeld questioner's
challenges, Rumsfeld's "stammer[ing]" replies
Media Matters
May 5, 2006
Summary: After a speech by Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld on May 4,
retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern questioned Rumsfeld over his previous claims
about Iraq's purported weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda.
Rumsfeld gave misleading answers, which McGovern pointed out during the
exchange. But in their coverage, NBC, CBS, and Fox News deceptively edited the
exchange, excluding McGovern's rebuttals of Rumsfeld's claims without noting
that they had done so.
On May 4, retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern confronted Secretary of Defense
Donald H. Rumsfeld over Rumsfeld's previous claims about Iraq's purported
weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda. Responding to McGovern,
Rumsfeld denied having made a statement that he did, in fact, make and gave
other misleading answers, which McGovern pointed out during the exchange. But
in their coverage of Rumsfeld's speech, NBC, CBS, and Fox News deceptively
edited the exchange, excluding McGovern's rebuttals of Rumsfeld's claims
without noting that they had done so.
During the exchange -- which was part of the question-and-answer session of
a speech given by Rumsfeld in Atlanta -- Rumsfeld stated: "It appears that
there were not weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. McGovern responded: "You
said you knew where they were" -- a charge that Rumsfeld falsely denied:
RUMSFELD: The president spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence
people and he went to the American people and made a presentation. I'm not in
the intelligence business. They gave the world their honest opinion. It appears
that there were not weapons of mass destruction there.
McGOVERN: You said you knew where they were.
RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and we were just
--
McGOVERN: You said you knew where they were -- near Tikrit, near Baghdad,
and north, east, south, and west of there. Those are your words.
McGovern was correct. On March 30, 2003 -- while the invasion of Iraq was
still in progress -- George Stephanopoulos, host of ABC's This Week, noted in
an interview with Rumsfeld that a raid on an Ansar Al-Islam camp in northern
Iraq had not uncovered weapons of mass destruction despite the fact that "[a]
lot of people expected to find ricin there." The context of Rumsfeld's This
Week comments makes clear that they referred to "where weapons of mass
destruction were dispersed." His comments did not refer -- as he told McGovern
-- to "where suspect sites were":
STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, weapons of mass destruction. Key goal of the
military campaign is finding those weapons of mass destruction. None have been
found yet. There was a raid on the Answar [sic] Al-Islam Camp up in the north
last night. A lot of people expected to find ricin there. None was found. How
big of a problem is that? And is it curious to you that given how much control
U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven't found any
weapons of mass destruction?
RUMSFELD: Not at all. If you think -- let me take that, both pieces -- the
area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is
substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction
were dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and
Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
The Los Angeles Times reported on May 5 that Rumsfeld "briefly stammer[ed]"
when McGovern cited his This Week claim:
But Rumsfeld became uncharacteristically tongue-tied when McGovern pressed
him on claims that he knew where unconventional Iraqi weapons were located.
"You said you knew where they were," McGovern said.
"I did not. I said I knew where suspected sites were," Rumsfeld
retorted.
McGovern then read from statements the Defense secretary had made that
weapons were located near Tikrit, Iraq, and Baghdad, which led Rumsfeld to
briefly stammer.
Later in his exchange with McGovern, Rumsfeld noted that American troops
"put on chemical weapon protective suits" when they entered Iraq, adding, "They
honestly believed that there were chemical weapons." McGovern countered:
"That's what we call a non sequitur. It doesn't matter what the troops believe,
it matters what you believe."
McGovern also referred to Rumsfeld's September 27, 2002, assertion that he
had been told by the intelligence community that the claim that "there are in
fact Al Qaeda in Iraq" was "bulletproof." In that same speech, Rumsfeld had
also asserted twice that Saddam Hussein "plays host to terrorist networks."
Defending his claim, Rumsfeld told McGovern that Jordanian-born terrorist Abu
Musab al-Zarqawi "was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a fact."
McGovern responded that Zarqawi "was in the north of Iraq in a place where
Saddam Hussein had no rule" and that he only went to Baghdad "when he needed to
go to the hospital":
McGOVERN: We're talking about lies, and your allegation that there was
"bulletproof" evidence of ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie or
were you misled?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a
fact.
McGOVERN: Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam
Hussein had no rule. That's where he was.
RUMSFELD: He was also in Baghdad.
McGOVERN: Yeah, when he needed to go to the hospital. Come on, these people
aren't idiots. They know the story.
An October 5, 2005, Knight Ridder article noted that "[t]here's no dispute
that al-Zarqawi spent time in Iraq before the U.S. invasion, but virtually all
that time was in a portion of northeastern Iraq that wasn't under Saddam's
control." Citing unnamed "intelligence officials," Knight Ridder reported: "A
new CIA assessment undercuts the White House's claim that Saddam Hussein
maintained ties to al-Qaida, saying there's no conclusive evidence that the
regime harbored Osama bin Laden associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi." Knight Ridder
further noted that the CIA report "follows the independent Sept. 11
commission's finding that there was no 'collaborative relationship' between the
former Iraqi regime and" Al Qaeda.
The Washington Post reported on Zarqawi's hospitalization in Baghdad in an
October 21, 2004, article:
In 2002, Bush administration officials said, Zarqawi went to Baghdad to have
one leg amputated after having been wounded by a U.S. bombing attack. That
account has turned out to be wrong, according to U.S. intelligence officials
who have interrogated Zarqawi associates.
"It was for another ailment, but not his leg," one intelligence official
said yesterday. "We are still learning about him," this official added.
CBS
On the May 4 broadcast of the CBS Evening News, national security
correspondent David Martin showed viewers the portion of the Rumsfeld-McGovern
exchange in which McGovern asked: "[Y]our allegation that there was
'bulletproof' evidence of ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie or
were you misled?" Martin showed Rumsfeld's repeated statements that Zarqawi was
"in Bagdhad" before the war. CBS, however, edited out McGovern's response that
Zarqawi came to Baghdad "when he needed to go to the hospital." Without giving
viewers any indication that the footage had been edited, Martin then showed
McGovern's subsequent statement: "Come on, these people aren't idiots. They
know the story."
Martin also showed viewers footage of Rumsfeld asking McGovern: "[W]hy do
you think that the men and women in uniform, every day when they came out of
Kuwait and went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon protective suits?" Martin did
not show McGovern's response that Rumsfeld's question was a "non sequitur."
NBC
On the May 4 broadcast of NBC's Nightly News, senior Pentagon correspondent
Jim Miklaszewski showed viewers McGovern's accusation that Rumsfeld had
"lie[d]." Miklaszewski then showed Rumsfeld's denial:
McGOVERN: Why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary and
that has caused these kinds of casualties? Why?
RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven't lied. I did not lie then.
Miklaszewski's report did not include any of the evidence that McGovern
presented in support of his accusation. Miklaszewski did note that McGovern
"challeng[ed] Rumsfeld's claim [that] Saddam Hussein had prior links to Al
Qaeda." But while Miklaszewski showed footage of Rumsfeld saying Zarqawi was
"in Baghdad," he omitted McGovern's response. Miklaszewski then declared that
"Rumsfeld appeared to pretty much hold his own."
Miklaszewski's report on the May 5 broadcast of NBC's Today was even more
deceptive. This time, Miklaszewski omitted McGovern response to Rumsfeld's
claim about Zarqawi but included McGovern's subsequent statement that "these
people aren't idiots." Like CBS' Martin, Miklaszewski provided no indication
that the video had been edited.
Fox News
On the May 4 edition of Fox News' Special Report, host and Washington
managing editor Brit Hume introduced footage of the exchange by noting that
McGovern "accused ... Rumsfeld and the Bush administration of lying about
whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction." Hume's footage include
McGovern's statement that "[y]ou said you knew where they [weapons of mass
destruction] were" as well as Rumsfeld's response: "I did not. I said I knew
where suspect sites were."
But the Hume's footage omitted the next portion of the exchange, in which
McGovern pointed out that on This Week, Rumsfeld had claimed to know where the
supposed weapons of mass destruction were. Hume's footage picked up again with
McGovern's charge that Rumsfeld lied about an Iraq-Al Qaeda connection. Like
Miklaszewski and Martin, Hume gave viewers no indication that the video had
been edited.
Like Martin, Hume also showed viewers Rumsfeld's statement about U.S.
troops' supposed belief that Iraq had chemical weapons but failed to show
McGovern's response that it was a "non sequitur."
Associated Press
Similarly, a May 5 AP article quoted Rumsfeld's insistence that he had not
lied about intelligence but included none of the evidence presented by
McGovern:
"Why did you lie to get us into a war that caused these kind of casualties
and was not necessary?" asked Ray McGovern, the former analyst.
"I did not lie," shot back Rumsfeld, who waved off security guards ready to
remove McGovern from the hall at the Southern Center for International
Studies.
From Rumsfeld's May 4 speech:
McGOVERN: Atlanta, September 27, 2002, Donald Rumsfeld said -- and I quote:
There's "bulletproof" evidence of links between Al Qaeda and the government of
President Saddam Hussein.
Was that a lie, Mr. Rumsfeld, or was that manufactured somewhere else?
Because all of my CIA colleagues disputed that, and so did the 9-11
Commission.
And so I would like to ask you to be up front with the American people. Why
did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary and that has caused
these kinds of casualties? Why?
RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven't lied. I did not lie then. Colin
Powell didn't lie. He spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence
Agency people and prepared a presentation that I know he believed was accurate.
And he presented that to the United Nations.
The president spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence people and
he went to the American people and made a presentation. I'm not in the
intelligence business. They gave the world their honest opinion. It appears
that there were not weapons of mass destruction there.
McGOVERN: You said you knew where they were.
RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and we were just
--
McGOVERN: You said you knew where they were near Tikrit, near Baghdad, and
north, east, south, and west of there. Those are your words.
RUMSFELD: My words -- my words were that -- no, no, no wait a minute, wait a
minute. Let him stay one second. Just a second.
McGOVERN: This is America.
RUMSFELD: You're getting plenty of play, sir.
McGOVERN: I'd just like an honest answer.
RUMSFELD: I'm giving it to you.
McGOVERN: We're talking about lies, and your allegation that there was
"bulletproof" evidence of ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie or
were you misled?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a
fact.
McGOVERN: Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam
Hussein had no rule. That's where he was.
RUMSFELD: He was also in Baghdad.
McGOVERN: Yeah, when he needed to go to the hospital. Come on, these people
aren't idiots. They know the story.
RUMSFELD: You are -- let me give you an example. It's easy for you to make a
charge, but why do you think that the men and women in uniform, every day when
they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon protective
suits? Because they liked the style?
They honestly believed that there were chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein had
used chemical weapons on his own people previously, he'd used them on his
neighbor, the Iranians, and they believed he had those weapons. We believed he
had those weapons.
McGOVERN: That's what we call a non sequitur. It doesn't matter what the
troops believe, it matters what you believe.
From the May 4 broadcast of CBS' Evening News:
[video clip]
MARTIN [voice-over]: But a retired CIA officer waited his turn to ask a
question and then went for Rumsfeld's throat.
McGOVERN: Why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary?
MARTIN [voice-over]: He was asking about faulty prewar intelligence on Iraq.
And when guards started to take him away, Rumsfeld stepped in.
RUMSFELD: No, no, no, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let him stay one
second.
McGOVERN: Your allegation that there was bulletproof evidence of ties
between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie or were you misled?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period, that is a
fact.
McGOVERN: Zarqawi, he was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam
Hussein had no rule. That's where he was
RUMSFELD: He was also in Baghdad.
McGOVERN: Come on, these people aren't idiots, they know the story.
[...]
MARTIN [voice-over]: But the Zarqawi blooper reel was upstaged by the ex-CIA
officer who also accused Rumsfeld of lying about Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction.
McGOVERN: You said you knew where they were.
RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and we were just
--
McGOVERN: You said you knew where they were near Tikrit, near Baghdad and
north, east, south, and west of there. Those are your words.
RUMSFELD: Why do you think that the men and women in uniform, every day when
they came out of Kuwait and they went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon
protective suits? Because they liked the -- the style?
[end video clip]
*
MARTIN: This is not the first time a former CIA officer has accused the Bush
administration of misusing intelligence. But, Bob, it's never been done in such
an in-your-face way.
From the May 4 broadcast of NBC's Nightly News:
[video clip]
MIKLASZEWSKI [voice-over]: But the most contentious exchange came during
questions from the audience.
McGOVERN: Why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary and
that has caused these kinds of casualties? Why?
RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven't lied. I did not lie then.
MIKLASZEWSKI [voice-over]: But the questioner, a long-retired CIA analyst,
persisted, challenging Rumsfeld's claim Saddam Hussein had prior links to Al
Qaeda.
McGOVERN: Was that a lie or were you misled?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a
fact.
[end video clip]
MIKLASZEWSKI: Now, Rumsfeld appeared to pretty much hold his own during
today's protest, but given the political season and an increasingly unpopular
war in Iraq, officials here predict this won't be the last.
From the May 5 broadcast of NBC's Today:
[video clip]
MIKLASZEWSKI[voice-over]: But the most pointed criticism came during the
question-and-answer session.
McGOVERN: Why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary and
that has caused these kinds casualties? Why?
RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven't lied. I did not lie then.
MIKLASZEWSKI [voice-over]: The questioner, a long-retired CIA analyst and
political activist, challenged Rumsfeld's claim Saddam Hussein had ties to Al
Qaeda.
McGOVERN: Was that a lie or were you misled?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a
fact.
McGOVERN: Come on, these people aren't idiots. They know the story.
[end video clip]
MIKLASZEWSKI: Now, Secretary Rumsfeld pretty much stood his ground and
answered all of the questions and most of the criticism. But officials here
expect more of these kind of fireworks as elections draw near here at home and
as the war drags on in Iraq.
From the May 4 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume:
HUME: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, meanwhile, was trying to avoid taking guff
during a speech today in Atlanta. Rumsfeld shrugged off a couple of hecklers
and then took on an audience member who said he had worked at the CIA for 27
years and accused the Bush -- Rumsfeld and the Bush administration of lying
about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
[video clip]
McGOVERN: Why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary and
that has caused these kinds of casualties? Why?
RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven't lied. I did not lie then.
Colin Powell didn't lie. He spent weeks and weeks with the Central
Intelligence Agency people and prepared a presentation that I know he believed
was accurate. And he presented that to the United Nations.
The president spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence people,
and he went to the American people and made a presentation. I'm not in the
intelligence business. They gave the world their honest opinion. It appears
that there were not weapons of mass destruction there.
McGOVERN: You said you knew where they were.
RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were --
[...]
McGOVERN: Your allegation that there was bulletproof evidence of ties
between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie or were you misled?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a
fact.
McGOVERN: Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam
Hussein had no rule. That's where he was.
RUMSFELD: He was also in Baghdad.
McGOVERN: Yeah, when he needed to go to the hospital. Come on, these people
aren't idiots. They know the story.
RUMSFELD: You are -- let me give you an example. It's easy for you to make a
charge, but why do you think that the men and women in uniform, every day when
they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon protective
suits? Because they liked the style?
[end video clip]
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